As the membership of the group grows, basic fun logistic issues start to crop up with the space. Liability issues are one. There is the tag system and folks are supposed to be 'checked in' on a tool, and they sign a waver saying that if they cut a limb off, the Space is not liable, but it still would be nice to up that a notch.

On top of qualifying folks, it would be nice if it was possible to 'reserve' a tool for a window of time. Say you only get time to be at the space on Tues nights or the like. If you knew that you where not going to get to the space and have the tool or resource already being used, that would be a big value add.

The easiest way to do this on a number of the larger resources, would be to add a box to the power that would toggle a switch. A very simple system with a relay and some latches and you could hack togather a low cost solution. Then the user could 'check in' to a station(s) around the shop to either indicate they were there, or, indicate that they are done with said tool.

It would be really nice to have a reader at each resource, but probably A) overkill and B) rather cost prohibitive.

Thoughts? Such a system could add a larger host of options. I really like the idea of the same fob or key that accessed the door being the token that ID's you in the system. There is no reason that you could not do the same thing with a junk PC for a station to log in (or even a app on your phone that you used to interface with the system.) If we added the notion of 'Shop Credit' to the mix, you could do more fun things, from making the vending tie in and just 'charge' your account for a Coke (it would be all pre-pay, of course). You could also take a resource that has consumables and charge a 'rate' to use it (to offset the cost of what ever the consumable is) In the mean time it acts like a loyalty card system and secures cash to the Spaces use and may make purchasing a bit more flexible. Not to mention that seeing statistics on usage is good for planning.

Lots of options here, and parts. I see a central, modular core system that would live on a PC/server somewhere in the space (in a secure area) and 'nodes' around the area that would tie in for authentication. I could probably design the system for the switches, but I'm likely not the best person to be drawing the fine details up if its 120(+)V. I also have a mess of old laptops that could be used as nodes and the like.

Anyone up for starting a project? I think one of the fun parts would be identifying and creating the interfaces with things like vending and the like. Also, the brainstorming on what to do with it once its there. I've seen other spaces do things like create little electronic kits and put them in stock candy bar machines for fund raising (some markup on the components as a 'donation' to the space, but totally a small project that someone can work on themselves or with a child.) I know my 4yr old loves the dumb little wood projects they have at Lowes (pre cut wood with like 10 nails to pound tops) Things like this could double to add revenue and accessibility to the space, which can't help but drive up membership.

i've been hoping for this for ages. i've come to the conclusion that while we probably need nametags now, using an "id tag" as door and tool pass woudn't be ideal. it's convenient to have a key fob, or card in your wallet, but neither of those lend themselves to display in the shop. i'm thinking a clip on cc sized rfid card with member name and photo printed on it. you'd wear it on a shirt pocket, collar, or belt and the sensor for tools would be set up such that an operator would be ~ in operational position, and/or have a "slot" you could set it into to keep it active.

the idea of the slot is that an instructor could "badge on" a tool (and may get several over ride badges for their class) and leave the tool active during the class, or that if you're using a tool that requires you to be a few feet back (jointing long stock) the machine will still be on.

in an ideal world, this ties in with the machine switch, so that restoring power does NOT turn it back on. there are a numbr of commercial solutions that do that, and for liability purposes it may make sense to tie into those rather than do that portion ourselves.

Great idea, but while it sounds ideal, how would it work in practice? Who is going to manage the system, and what happens when a member takes his equipment home?

I like the idea of a RFID or similar tag that could be enabled to turn on a LED or something stating that the person using the machine is checked out on it, but to take an example of that wood lathe that was donated.

We set it up to be on a system that needs a access device, who checks me out on it's use?
While it has been years since I used one, I have spent time working on it, bought the tail stock, and I hope to fix the current problem with it (the first one we found anyways) but it is not my device, I know the common sense things to do, not do, but I would not be the person to check out folks on this but I also feel that I know enough to be able to use it while a class is being set up to train folks on it.

Then there is another issue that concerns me, while we sign a liability waiver, the Lathe is a dangerous machine, and the potential for a bystander to get injured is almost as great as the user. But because the user was cleared to use this machine, does that make the organization singularly responsible for the actions (or mis-actions) of the user?

I love the idea of a system to check this out, getting a web based scheduling system, with the added ability to get a bounce back text/email of the current calendar (say the day) would be great. But a system that limits the use of even key units, I like the lock and key method better, and the current warning system is a great start.

well, i'm not a lawyer, but if i recall our waiver correctly it says that anything that happens is not tcm's fault, or the other person, but that you're using everything at your own risk. i could be wrong.

as we grow we're gonna need some structures to do some management of the shop in a more formal manner than we have now. realistically that probably means a few "area managers" for the shop. when a new tool show up the(or a, or both) wood area managers meet with the person, make sure they know how the tool works, and know how the tool is to be used. they then determine that since it's functionally the same as another widget chomper that we already have, anyone checked out on one, is checked out on both. if you take wood tools II class you'll learn how to safely operate the widget chomper(s) and have them added to your tag, or if you know how to use them, you can meet with an area manager, show them how it works, and that you know not to put body parts in the finger removing hole, or lean on the slicey bits, and they can add you that way. the big data base of reasonably competent folks then contains a mark by booka's name that says that jrsphoto approved him on yellow tagged chompers on 5/12/11 and on the orange tagged BIG chomper on 5/14/12/

this will also allow for the tool inventory database to include things like xyz owns the purple lathe, and yza owns the live centers for it, that sorta thing. it'll also let us have "super users" or "owners" who could check out folks, or lock it out for maintenance.

I posted on the other thread before I saw this one.

I am uncomfortable with the level of distrust of the community this thread implies.
Is this Voter ID a solution in search of a problem?
I'll think on this some more, but my default position is for the community to err on the side of openness and to limit restrictions as much as possible.

I'm with jude here, unless he thinks on it too long and changes his mind.

I guess I was not really looking at it as a trust vs distrust at the individual level, just the risking of the organization level. But I do see that point too, and I would love to live in a world that I could trust everybody, but I do still try to stay optimistic when I deal with the Hackfactory and the TCMaker members / visitors.

But after looking at the rest of the space last night, and the many conversations that I have had with people there, I am less worried about it than I indicated above, I must just have been really paranoid or in that mind set when I read the original post.

I still think the whole thing is very ambitious, but I am going to stop with the negative comments about it unless I see something more substantial to speak up about.

Now I do think that people who have loaned tools, and I guess I mean all tools, should have a way to insure they are not used / damaged by ignorance.

Recently I have heard of somebody about to use a drywall hole saw to try to cut metal, we have had the documented Torch damage issue, the Plasma Cutter, and such.
I would love to trust people, but a few bad instances indicate we do need to address this in some manner. I like the idea from the plasma cutter, and if we ever have another check out session on that I would be up for sharing the cost of the consumables with a couple folks. I also expect that once we have more space, we may end up with the member storage solution, and that I hope it includes space to lock up smaller tools.

Now once you get a little further down this path, I would be happy to help figure out ways to code sensors and enter this into a online Tool Board that indicates that a tool is being used, or last used. This would be a nice thing to track to see what tools have the most hands on time, and also keep us up to date for maintenance needs.

Booka

Don't get me wrong I understand the concern. I actually agree in many ways. But I see the tool misuse and authorization issues.

I just see this a more of a better new member familiarization procedure.

The idea in the opening post sounds interesting, from a technical and project standpoint.

I'm still wondering what this would fix, that wouldn't be fixed more easily by posters or conversation.

Is anyone able to give me some concrete examples of times when someone came in to use a tool, and couldn't, as it was occupied?

And perhaps, put a little more meat on some of the other reasons?

So, I'm striking up some of these conversations as all of these sound like fun projects that could serve to solve or head off some problems that may occur in the space. The context on this was for some of the more dangerous, stationary stuff. Again, if we had a 'shop manager' on duty, 24/7 on the floor this would be a lot easier.

The second part of it is that the group is expanding, hopefully faster now to deal with the increased space. Anyone that's spent time in a corporate setting with only a handful of conference rooms and fewer projectors know what happens when the demand on a resource exceeds the organization around its use. Hence the concept of scheduling. Its a value add to a person that only gets to the space every so often and wants to maximize their time in the space.

I think the previous comment that was made applies here. Use social solutions for social problems and technical solutions for technical problems. I say we go both routes. There is a bit of both here.

Again, the point here is discussion, which we are getting, and that's good.